Veggie Tales

Idiot.

If he’s a vegetarian because he believes in animal rights–which is what it sounds like–and not for health reasons, why shouldn’t he smoke if he wants to, especially if he’s not preaching at anybody else for their own choices? And why did you ask if it bothers him if people eat meat around him if you didn’t want an honest answer?

It doesn’t sound like you were malicious in questioning him–although the “I’m surprised you don’t care about yourself as much as you do the animals” is pretty condescending–but as a longtime vegetarian, I can say that I get really sick of hearing the same questions over and over again. I usually respond to questions with simple statements rather than go into detail about slaughterhouses and feedlots, especially around people I don’t know very well, and especially while we’re eating. Really, I’m not surprised your date didn’t want to get into an in-depth discussion about animal rights on a first or second date.

What’s interesting is that it seems like the meat/no-meat thing was more of an issue for you than it was for him; it sounds like you were the one who was pressing the issue and making him uncomfortable. If the roles were reversed here and your date had been the one making you defend your lifestyle, asking questions like, “Why do you eat pigs but keep a pet dog?” how would you feel? Most people faced with vegetarians like that feel that they’re being preached at and judged. Well, that street goes both ways.

Yep, pretty sure YOU were the bad date in this instance. He didn’t try to press his views on you but you persisted in being condescending and judgmental. Way to go!

Hahah, I was waiting for the vegetarian response. Garter, we don’t know the details. From how I read it, it sounds like he was one of those self-entitled people that like to brow beat those who choose to eat meat. I’ve run into plenty of people with their noses in the air responding “oh… I do it for the animals.” Don’t you think those who eat meat get tired of hearing that as well? A great many people who take on vegetarianism fall out of it within a few months because they never believed it in the beginning. It’s very frustrating to defend yourself against someone who is taking on a belief as a status symbol.

I’m not defending her or how she went about things, but pull yourself from your defenses a bit — us omnivores get a lot of crap from those who are “morally superior due to their food choices” (yes, I have been told that). IMO, it’s a personal belief and shouldn’t be brought up on a date. Like politics, religion, and number of kids you want by the age of 37, you leave that stuff until two days before you get married. Sheesh!

Sounds to me that he’s right – you DON’T have a clue. Comparing smoking to not eating meat clearly for animal rights reasons is just ignorant. I’m surprised he asked you out for a second date. I certainly wouldn’t have.

Meshell, I agree with you that stuff like that isn’t the best first date material. I also acknowledged that there are preachy, judgmental vegetarians out there. I’m not sure what you’re finding to argue with me about on those points.

Of course we don’t know all the details, but we do know what’s in the story the OP wrote, and there’s nothing in the story about this guy giving her crap or pushing his beliefs on her. If he’d done that, don’t you think she would have put it in her story? What IS in the story is that she instantly passed judgment on him when she found out he didn’t eat meat, that she asked him a bunch of questions about why he’s a vegetarian, and that he responded in a manner that suggested he didn’t want to talk about it.

I think it is very interesting, Meshell, that you’ve called it the ‘vegetarian response’ as though all vegetarians are part of a close knit family with identical beliefs who are obligated to stand up for one another because they share a mutal love of carrots. Just because all vegetarians share a (more or less) common diet and probably some common beliefs as to why they’ve chosen that diet, that doesn’t mean that they have idential views on the world and that, say, if this post had been about a vegetarian forcing his beliefs on everybody else, that all vegetarians would defend him. Many would think he’s an asshole, because, y’know being a vegetarian doesn’t automatically mean a superior attitude and condescending nature.

That said, I’m not a vegetarian and I think that the OP is the bad date here. It does seem to me that she was the one who was unconfortable by his choice and that she was the one pressing the issue. Nothing seems to indicate that HE wanted to talk about it, as she asked all of the questions and she didn’t mention who brought up the topic on the second date.

I definitely agree with a lot of the other commenters that the original poster was by far the bad date. I have been a vegetarian for almost half my life, and when people ask me I just say, “It’s not for me.” There are those people who want to discuss it further because they’re genuinely curious, and of course I’m willing to talk about it. However, I usually just provide a short answer because of the number of people who have moo-ed at me while eating, told me that I’m killing animals because of the rodents etc that have been killed by farming equipment, tried to talk me out of my beliefs, told me “a cow would eat you if it had the chance,” etc etc (seriously, you think you can give me an argument I haven’t heard? I doubt it). I get that most people don’t eat the same way that I do, and that’s totally fine, I’d rather just not talk about it. And it sounds like this is what this guy was trying to do.

Anyway, that rant aside, this is a message to all meat-eaters: contrary to popular opinion, most vegetarians are really not judgmental, morally superior people. We have just chosen our own diets and you are free to choose yours.

Amen, SET.

I wonder if a relationship can thrive when one is vegetarian and the other isn’t. Eating’s such a major part of life, it seems to me that the clash of diets might be an ongoing source of conflict.

I once dated a vegetarian for a few months, and I admit that I eventually found it irritating that we could seldom do something as simple as share food. It seemed a chasm between us.

Yeah, inter-dietary dating is such fun. Good points all around. It seems like the guy must have really liked her to keep at it, and it’s impossible to know the tone of their exchanges…was the head-on-table meant for comic relief or was it weird dramatics? One thing that is missing is why he let it get to the dinner table before having some input. I don’t advertise the fact that I’m vegetarian to dates–I’d rather make an impression first, and clue them in later (making it clear that the choice is mine and for me alone, and implies no condemnation of their choice)–but I do at least make sure that a restaurant will work for both of us before I’m staring at the menu. Why didn’t the OP’s date step up sooner? And to be a bit critical, why would he go out with a woman whose eating habits will bother him? Dating across diets can work out just fine, but “it bothers me sometimes” vs. “meat-lover” seems doomed.

I’m vegetarian and I agree with Valencia and SET. I don’t consider myself to be morally superior because of my diet because I don’t believe in the concept of morality. I don’t answer the whole “LEIK OH EM GEE WHY DON’T YOU EAT MEAT” question anymore because the people who ask me that are usually looking to pick a fight.

And inter-dietary dating really isn’t that hard if you don’t make a big fucking stink out of it.

Lisa: I know several couples who have differing opinions about eating meat; one is a vegetarian, the other an omnivore. They make it work because they love each other, and because they respect each other’s opinions. Nothing in the OP’s story indicates she respected her date’s opinion at all.
Sean: It sounds like the date’s eating habits bothered the OP more than hers bothered him. You ask why he went out with a woman whose eating habits bothered him, but the story the OP told shows that she was more irritated by his eating habits than he was by hers.

I think Lisa has an interesting point — food is a big thing for me and while it would be interesting for a while to try new and tasty veggie dishes, it would probably become difficult for me after a while. It just eliminates something one can share with their partner and for some of us that (food, I mean) is a big deal!

I am a vegetarian (12 years this summer) and my husband is not. We get along jjst fine, because he is willing to eat veggie at home (he does all the cooking too). When we go out to dinner, he usually has meat and that doesn’t bother me at all. I make my dietary choices, other people make theirs.

Yeah, I think Lisa is right that it can be tricky. I’m a vegetarian and I dated a guy for a year who loved meat. It wasn’t usually a problem but that’s because mostly when we were together we ate take out. Cooking for him, though, was difficult, because he tended to regard absolutely everything that’s not meat as some kind of garnish or side dish to accompany meat. I remember I took him out to a vegetarian restaurant and after his curry was placed in front of him, he sat waiting patiently for the meal to arrive. I asked him why he wasn’t eating and he looked at me in genuine surprise and told me that he’d thought the main meal was coming and that he had just been given a bowl of ‘sauce’ to go with it. If we’d ever lived together the dietary difference almost certainly would have been an ongoing frustration to some degree.

If you don’t like the answer, don’t ask the question. She asked, he answered. How is that “preachy”??

Just a quick comment-I am a vegetarian and my husband is not! We have been happily married for 7 years!

Kelly- do you and your husband eat out a lot? How do you handle eating at home? Does whoever who does the cooking make a vegetarian meal AND a nonvegetarian meal? Or, perhaps you eat vegetarian at home and your husband reserves meat-eating for restaurants and take-out meals?

No, we don’t eat out a lot. I do most of the cooking and it is vegetarian. My husband likes all the food I cook. Like this week I made Pot pie (with quorn-a chicken substitute), Minestrone soup, a greek eggplant dish, paninis and tonight I am making mushroom risotto.
Sometimes he cooks meat on the side. Like with the paninis last night. I had brie, apple, honey and arugula. He had ham and cheese. Then usually on Sunday he makes a roast, or some other meat dish and I made something that only I like. Then he can eat the leftovers from Sunday on any night where he feels like he would like to add meat to what I made.

I’m with the OP. Who cares if he’s vegetarian, it’s his passive whining that sets me off. For instance, “[w]hen we got to dinner, I asked him what he was going to order and he told me that there were no real options for him.” Why not just say “I’m having the Butternut Squash ravioli” ? Why not take her to a restaurant that he knows will be able to accommodate his needs? If it bothers him so much when people eat meat (his apparent response to her query), why not avoid that situation? Instead, it sounds like he’s developed pouting into an art form.

Tronner, it’s quite clear by this point that the OP was being judgmental and the date was just stating simply that he was vegetarian. I see nothing “whiny” about it. If he had bitched and moaned about not being many options, then I’d understand why you think he’s whiny. But all he did was state “oh, there’s not that many options here” and left it at that.

OP, sorry to say, but you sound like an incredibly judgmental bitch. I’ve been a vegetarian for 6 years, and contrary to popular opinion, most vegetarians are not “whiny” and do not try to force their dietary habits onto others. I believe that was quite evident when the guy was still willing to date you and did not attack YOUR personal preference when it came to eating meat. But you really went after him, and for what reason? Does his vegetarianism offend you? It seemed to be a big issue for you when it really didn’t have to be.

He probably answered your question as to why he was a vegetarian with a simple statement as “for the animals” because as a vegetarian he has been asked constantly why he is one. It is tiresome to have the same conversation all the time, especially when it is clear that a person is asking the question from a judgmental perspective. I probably would have answered the same way as him because it’s not something I want to get into a detailed discussion about on a first date, and if I can tell the person is asking less out of curiosity and more out of judgment, I really want to avoid getting into a debate. So yes, while he said “For the animals” that does not mean he was incapable of answering the question. This is probably an issue he has thought long about, otherwise he wouldn’t be a vegetarian. He could have answered with something explaining factory farming and the pollution and deforestation it causes, and how workers treat the animals, but he didn’t feel like it.

I really feel bad for the guy. OP’s worst date? Yeah, I kind of doubt that. More like his.

Valencia – I said “vegetarian response” rather tongue-in-cheek. I wanted to hear from vegetarians, which is a different response than an omnivore that I wanted to read just as much. I know it’s quick to read that as I am putting them all in one dumb-down group without their own individual thoughts, but that is not my intent. I mean it like “i would like to hear a musician’s response” had someone gone on a date with a cellist and found him/her obnoxious.

Alls I gotta say is that I love meat like the regular omnivore, but I don’t understand the aversion to veggies. I grew up shucking corn at age 3, so when I hear a whiney meat-eater complaining about a vegetarian while scarfing down 9 oz steaks next to their fave veggie… potato, I just want to slap them. Veggies contain nutrients our bodies NEED, so blah. I think the argument of “why are you a vegetarian” is far more insane than the obvious “Why don’t you eat veggies.”

BTW, vegetarians aren’t all morally superior with their attitudes, but don’t you lie, vegetarians, when it comes to those fakers and hipsters that tout your personal belief as the “new in thing to do.” Those are the “vegetarians” that I want to kick in the head.

It’s all good… they will fall for a piece of bacon in two weeks, give or take a week

Let me get this straight. OP is a judgmental bitch because dipshit date says he is sometimes offended by people eating meat? Really? He is offended by meat eaters and she’s the bigot? Wow.

He didn’t say he was offended, he said it bothered him. Because she asked him if it bothered him. And nobody called the OP a bigot. Cool your jets.

I’ve been a vegetarian for 29 years (since I was 12.) I, too have heard all the arguments in favor of carnivorism, and have been quizzed about and forced to defend my reasons for vegetarianism for all of those 29 years. It gets tiresome. Rather than spend my whole evening debating with my dining companions, I generally give the briefest response possible, then change the subject, just as this date did.

Truthfully, yeah, it can bother me when I see people eating meat. If a date asked me, I’d tell him that, because it’s the truth. It’s a free country, and I’m allowed to feel however I want, same as anyone else.

And yes, it is quite possible for carnivores and vegans to peacefully coexist. My boyfriend of the past 11 years loves his beef. I knew he was a keeper on our 2nd date when he took me to an Indian restaurant. When I told him it was a favorite of mine because they have lots of veg meals, he asked me if I was a vegetarian. I told him I was, and braced for the inevitable debate/argument/ridicule to follow. All he said was “cool”. We had a lovely evening because he respected my dietary choices, and I respected his. Simple as that.

A few of you support the claim that carnivores and vegans can make happy matches.

While this is hardly a scientific sampling, I can’t help but notice that the examples of happy matches (Betty, Kelly, El) are cases where the woman is a vegetarian, and the man is not.

(In my case, where the guy was the vegetarian, it irritated me. In the OP’s case too, apparently.)

Does anyone know of happy, longstanding couples where the woman’s a carnivore and the guy’s a vegetarian?

Is vegetarianism more acceptable in women? Less forgivable in men? Or, maybe it just seems that way because there are more female vegetarians than male vegetarians?

Oh, and to further support my little off-the-cuff theory, Emily supposed she’d find it irritating to date a vegetarian. ( I’m jumping to the conclusion that she meant a vegetarian MAN, of course.)

What a hypocrite. You did good to put him on the spot. Don’t listen to the vegetarians, they’re all frustrated because they don’t get enough proteins.

Lisa – I’m gonna bet most of the readers/posters themselves here are female and you can’t really base a theory on three posts on a short feed. So really there is no evidence that partnerships where the male is vegetarian are less successful. Anyway if the partner finds it irritating that’s their problem, not the vegetarian’s.
I think the OP was the bad date as she is obviously the one with the problem.

Francois Tremblay, stop being ignorant. http://www.savvyvegetarian.com/articles/protein-veg-diet.php

It really would be a bigger problem if the woman here didn’t like meat.

guess it depends who does most of the cooking

Lauren– True, the majority of readers (of this site) are probably female, but that doesn’t rule out comments from female carnivores telling us of their happy relationships with vegetarian husbands or boyfriends.

I think maybe everyone should cool their jets — at the end of the day, this is a dating blog meant for comedy value! Ok so some people have not found comedy in this post, but it’s not really the end of the world, or worth getting worked up over, is it? I imagine we didn’t hear the entire story about the veggie date. I obviously can’t speak for anyone but I didn’t get the impression that the OP was trying to attack the vegetarian lifestyle/choice. I also think that Francois Tremblay was just being cheeky and there is no need for anyone to cry ignorance at the comment.

Lisa – yes, I date men but I actually live with vegetarians. I’ve learned some really amazing veggie additions to meat dishes I make, as well as the awesomeness of veggie lasagne which is just as tasty but about a fraction of the calories! Living with a veggie is a great way for me to lean more about food, but I’ve spent enough time tweaking dishes so they can be eaten by a veggie to know that I could never date one, a face having to do it all the time.

It’s the condesending “So you smoke” argument that makes me think that the OP wasn’t being cool about his eating habits. She could have very well just ended the date and not ever seen him again instead of probing him since she already knew that he was uncomfortable. Do people run around asking other people why they’re whatever religion they are, how long they’ve been going to church, chide them for not reading enough bible verses and oh hey, you sin that’s not very christian… And yes, some people take vegetarianism as serious as religion- a few preach about it, others quietly practice.

I’ve been a vegetarian for 14 years and the worst thing anyone has ever said to me because of it was, “God made animals for you to eat.” Seriously. Like God will be pissed I had beans in my taco instead of beef.

My boyfriend is an omnivore. Because we don’t have a lot of money we don’t really go out to eat. When I cook though I only cook vegetarian meals but he eats them and says they’re good. I guess if the vegetarian cooks there’s less of a conflict.

When my boyfriend asked me why I was a vegetarian I said, “Because I don’t eat meat.”

Lisa,

My parents are an example of a vegetarian man and omnivorous woman having a successful relationship. They’ve been married for almost 22 years and their relationship is just dandy. Food is a non-issue to them.

i eat meat and my long-term boyfriend’s a vegetarian. i used to be a vegan and had a meat-eating boyfriend at the time. it isn’t and wasn’t an issue in either case.

All the guy said was that he didn’t eat meat. And what if he were a human rights activist and a smoker–would you have asked him why he smoked then? That was kind of an irrelevant question.

I suspect that the reason he gave you the short answer of “for the animals”, which I agree was pretty inadequate as far as information goes, was that he didn’t want to argue or preach to you. Though of course since you’d asked, he could have taken the chance to give you some info.

If you’re genuinely interested in why he was doing it “for the animals”, I’d suggest checking out:

http://liberationbc.org/issues/farmanimals

or

http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/

Maybe you should not have brought up his vegetarianism. It’s not a good dinner topic most of the time. Smoking has nothing to do with vegetarianism. You were the rude one! Don’t pester us because we choose not to eat meat!

So…nobody in this entire thread stopped to think why this guy took her on a date to a restaurant that had “no real options” for him to order?

If you’re already vegetarian and it’s not something you WANT to get into a discussion about, why not just pick a restaurant that has vegetarian options as well as non-vegetarian options? Lot less drama.

I agree with the majority of the posters here. I was raised vegetarian, and I choose to eat meat myself nowadays, but I know people just like the OP. If her vegetarian fixation was as big a problem for OP as it obviously was, why bother going out on the second date for that matter? And I got the opinion from her language and the way she presented the relatively inoffensive guy that she was sort of fucking with him, like she thought he was kind of silly. Which is fine, she has the right to be an asshole. But don’t act like you’re interested in dating him. Honestly, the dude really dodged a bullet. OP sounds like Sarah Palin on the prowl.

Yeah, why didn’t his vegetarianism come up earlier, in their online conversations, certainly before choosing a restaurant? Her smoking comment shows youth and ignorance, not just ignorance of this issue, but that she doesn’t know how to sort her thoughts clearly. She’s comparing things that have no relationship. But everyone does that sometimes, it can be very tempting to lump behaviors into categories like that. The people just seem ill-suited, they annoy each other and have different assumptions, right down to the end where something she thought was a deal-breaking fight had not been for him, but it’s still over. It’s not THAT bad a date story though.

Scribbles, how do you know she didn’t suggest that restaurant? All she says is that he picked her up. Maybe he was trying to avoid drama in the first place by letting her pick.

As far as cross-dietary couples, I’m an omnivore but my husband was vegetarian growing up. A lot of the things he make don’t have meat. Who cares? He’s a good cook and makes delicious food.