Not Beating Around the Bush

OK, that’s f’d up on many levels.
- He is a major asshat
- You stupidly went to his apartment
- Police arrested him simply on what you said. How do they know you didn’t just make it up?

Haha okay, a bad date that ended in legal action. Are we going to argue about it being the OP’s fault this time?

so even though he seemed to be mr wonderful, you still should not have gone to his apartment. How many horrible stories do we hear that started out “he seemed to be perfect!”
still, you were very smart in getting out of it…good thinking! but do not ever go to a man’s apartment on the first date, ever again!!! especially an internet date.

Anyone suggesting she brought this on herself deserves a kick in the behind…
While she certainly made a poor choice, his behavior can never be excused.
My comment was more about the legal system. Will the police actually arrest someone because she “says” something happened, without proof or witnesses?

I wouldn’t give her my license. I wouldn’t attack her either, but some chick asking for my personal information before our first date would freak me out. Also, I’d be insulted by the inference that there was a large possibility that I would attack her. I realize she wouldn’t know me well enough at that point to know any better, but still, I’d be insulted and walk away.

Not entirely sure I believe this story, but it’s certainly a bad date.

(is the bar to filing a *charge* of sexual assault really that low? the confinement I can believe)

I don’t “blame” the submitter here, but I’m not sure I find this 100% truthful. She is careful enough to get a guy’s driver’s license & plate # or else she refuses a date, but then agrees to get into a car with him alone when he picked her up? (Ntm going back to his place, especially since her date didn’t even *ask* her to go home with him; he basically just drove her there.) If I go on a blind date, I drive myself, partly for safety reasons & partly so I can leave if it just doesn’t work out.

Ted, you know it’s not personal and yet you’d still be insulted? It’s self-protective. I’ve never asked for a license number, but full name, phone number, and license plate number (if he has a car) don’t seem so unreasonable to me.

Well Ted, then she wouldn’t go out with you or care, end of story.

Well done! I’m not going to tell you to never go to anyone’s house, that’s dumb. There are no more rapist and murderers than in the 70′s, and everyone did it then without a second thought. You were so right on with protecting yourself. You don’t have to stay home the rest of your life. You CAN be an empowered female like the OP was. Right on! Some pepper spray would be good to have. It’s my dream to pepper spray a aggressive man in the dick. Next one that whips it out to be a jerk is going to be really sorry…

and to the people that are confused as to why the police took action biased on what she said….Do you understand what the police do and the law? I don’t think you do if you don’t understand.

Bottom line: if you are meeting a stranger (and no matter how much you chatted online, they are a stranger) the only place you should meet is in a very public place like a coffee shop.

There is no way i would give my ID to some person i barely know. Identity theft anyone?

Also there is almost no way the guy will get convicted, This is a typical “he said, she said” case with no hard evidence (bruises from assault, etc.) that will result in Aquitaine on lack of evidence.
Police will often arrest and charge someone base on “bare allegation”. Conviction is a different matter.

The first time I met my now boyfriend in person, during the lingering after-dinner conversation he casually pulled out his wallet and showed me how ugly his driver’s license photo was. I replied with mine and we shared a good laugh. Weeks later, he revealed that he was checking I was legal, because I had just turned 19 and he was 24. It was pretty clever of him and I would have never guessed. I wonder how the OP got his driver’s license number, but I know it wouldn’t be that difficult.

Jeez, after he put all that thought and energy into getting flowers and a seaside restaurant. Please add tag: How To Ruin Someone’s Dating Efficiency

Was his last name Tyson?

1) We don’t know what evidence she had available to give to the police which caused them to make their conclusion.

2) She didn’t go to his apartment until after they had been talking together for quite a while. It’s not like they met at his apartment or went there immediately.

And for those of you who haven’t done the “web personals” thing, let me tell you that often you get to know someone pretty well through “chatting” before you actually meet them for a date. It’s still unwise to go to their apartment until you’ve spent a while with them in real life. But the OP _did_ spend a while with him in real life first.

I’m taking both sides here. At least he was honest and upfront with you. Would you rather him lead you on and drag you out for as long as he could only to find out later that he’s a jerk? And whut’s with the license thing? I would have told you to go fuck yourself if you asked for my license number.

Now here’s where I take your side. He was too smooth for you to know any better. And yes, pulling at your clothes if it’s unwanted is assault and I applaud you for hauling ass out of there. It could have gotten uglier.

@Annie – Your boyfriend is awesome.

for all the time I’ve been reading this blog i still can’t believe the number of gratuitous 180º’s in attitude. if someone has the capacity to behave decently enough to get the date how come they believe it’s ok to do something completely “out of the blue” the next second?
this one for instance, he already had her smitten and in his apartment. how hard would it be to have her in the sack and test his theory without ever telling her?
don’t get me wrong, this guy should have his nuts poked with a hot iron but coldly speaking his attitude make no sense to his own objective…

now the going to his house thing, yes it is a number one no-no, but come on, it’s so easy to read this and go all judgmental. i bet most of you would be taken in the moment and risk it. specially if the date is really going well, (not the “he already insulted me twice and tried to felt me up but i went anyway” times).

Uhm – I don’t know if I can give a potential rapist kudos when he’s being upfront and honest about potentially raping the OP. I do agree that sometimes its better to find out sexual compatibility sooner rather than later, but it sounds like this dude was just using it as an excuse to justify being a creep.

WELL DONE OP! Gotdamn, it was a sticky situation, but good for you for realizing so and putting the legal smackdown on the asshole!

The OP won my heart for being a smart, strong woman who doesn’t buy into the idea that you won’t get raped if you don’t do xyz (like go into someone’s house cause rape doesn’t happen in the street or cars everrrrr). Kudos, OP! And to her sister too!

Sexual asasault yes, but unlawful confinement? Not sure how you came up with that one.

Glad it worked out for you in this case but if a woman asked for my driver’s license number on a first date that would be the end of the date. You don’t have to be female to be a victim of a crime like identity theft.

“He proceeded to grab me and pull at my clothes and try to kiss me. I fought him away and said that the only way he would be having sex with me was if he raped me and he seemed to be ok with that.”

Not sure who is at fault here, the OP for even referring to rape or for him to agree to it. To a twisted psyche, those are terms she’s setting forth, and if he agrees, he gets what he wants. I’m not a lawyer by any stretch, but if this came to litigation, it would be a major strike against her.

However, by definition, sexual assault is unwanted sexual advances, which she states he did by grabbing at her clothes and forcing a kiss. So there she had him. The rest of it is blurry…and a series of bad choices.

Clever name’s dream is to pepper spray a guy?

Can you say: Issues?

@NEJoy – Yes, I would be insulted. Here is why:

1. I’m not a rapist (I realize she wouldn’t know this, but still… fuck you.)

2. Fuck you, if I’m so untrustworthy, just say no and don’t go out with me.

3. Identity theft. What, like I’m the idiot that just hands over my personal information to the first pair of tits that asks? Ah… no.

4. Let’s say I am a rapist… I’m not going to say yes if you ASK ME IF I AM!!!!

@YG

Are you insane? No court in hell would accept “I fought him away and said that the only way he would be having sex with me was if he raped me” as any form of legal contract or binding agreement. In fact it makes it unequivocally clear that she has no intention of engaging in consensual intercourse. You cannot legally agree to let someone rape you by the very definition of what rape is.

In fact, many US states (maybe all states, but I can’t say for sure) can file charges against a suspected rapist even if the victim refuses to press charges or testify. It’s impractical, the state would need to be able to prove the rape without the victim’s testimony, but it does happen. Hence why rape charges can be levied in murder cases when there is evidence of sexual assault even though the victim is deceased. Much harder for the state to pull off if the victim is simply unwilling to testify.

Your legal lesson of the day.

Pipe the hell down, Li, unclench a bit and use your head for common sense for a change. Witness a rape trial and learn that any rape victim has to present herself as a copy of the Virgin Mary to be proven innocent. The whole “she asked for it” mentality still prevails no matter how many victims’ rights groups fight for fairer sentencing. Only a fraction of those who commit sexual assault are apprehended and convicted for their crimes. Most convicted sex offenders eventually are released to the community under probation or parole supervision.

And why is that? Because bone headed things like the OP said come up and undermine their own defense. To potential sex offender, saying things like that is a challenge they’d eagerly undertake and, God forbid she wind up a victim, he could in all honesty say, “She acted like she WANTED to be raped by bringing it up…some chicks get off on that sort of thing…she was giving off all kinds of mixed signals” and probably get away with it. Stupid but true. Read some court transcripts sometime and see how these offenders get away with so much just by twisting the truth around, and you’ll learn amazing amounts before you spout off again. There’s the law, and then there’s the flawed way it gets carried out.

Speaking of stupid, I’m done with this site. The idiots have taken over. This was meant to be postings about awful dates, not near-rape experiences or stories related by idiot females who can’t admit they made bad decisions or guys who act shocked by weird behaviour when their date shows up stoned. You never go broke appealing to the lowest common denominator Have a field day ripping me apart because I really don’t care any more (and that includes you, Lisa…because good God, do you ever need a good lay).

@pop says:
“for all the time I’ve been reading this blog i still can’t believe the number of gratuitous 180º’s in attitude. if someone has the capacity to behave decently enough to get the date how come they believe it’s ok to do something completely “out of the blue” the next second?”

one word: socio/psychopath
they are great at mimicing decent people, then they show their true side and have no remorse about it.

@ YG, that last sentence was pretty funny.

@ ted, maybe consider pulling the tampon out before you post on here.

@NurseDrea – never!

@ YG

I don’t know what kind of law you’re looking into, but in most states, there is a law in place that requires that a girl give her consent – not just NOT saying no – in order for it to not be rape. This was put in place because there were often cases of girls getting too drunk and basically be near passing out and getting raped, and their attacker would say, “well she didn’t say no and she was dressed ______ and acted _______” … but she never gave her consent. That’s still rape. And you’re arguing about how rapists are convicted, not whether an act was rape or not, which I’m pretty sure is the point.

YG’s right to point out how rape culture works even in the legal system. I’ve dated a rape victim and someone with rape fantasies immediately after, and you can be sure that I was uncomfortable and unwilling to engage in that sort of activity after my prior experience. Imagine what I might have thought if I dated them in reverse order? Just one of many examples to how messy things are. (I’m not defending “R” at all–I’m just pointing out that YG has valid input.)

If someone wants my driver’s license, nah. Any public information such as name, address, license plate–okay. The rest is due caution. Not gonna hand out my SSN or bank info either.

What’s pathetic is that this guy has probably used a similar routine before. The fact that she had to go along with it to get out is scary. I feel a certain guilt just for being male when I hear about dudes behaving like that.

Keeping someone from leaving = unlawful confinement.
Attempting to undress and have sex with someone without their consent = sexual assault.

Not sure what’s so confusing about this. And I’m glad the police did take action, I know it can be easy for women to lie about it, but most don’t and are too afraid to go to the police because people are hesitant to believe assault/rape victims.

“…(and that includes you, Lisa…because good God, do you ever need a good lay).”

Speaking of Lisa, where is she today? Typically, she is one of the first 5 commenters.

I have never had to give my driver’s license number for anything important. The only POSSIBLE use for it is cashing a check and in that case you’re holding the license and hand it over, they copy down the number.

There is nothing on your license that can be used to steal your identity. If there were, you would probably be a little more freaked about handing it to any random cashier that has to check your ID against your credit card, eh? Now if your SSN# was on there too…

Way to go, OP, what a creeper.

Faith, post yours and I’ll show you what can be done with it. Just because you can’t anticipate how your info will be used doesn’t mean that someone else hasn’t thought of something.

Take synthetic identity theft for example. Take bits of information from a few people and create a new identity. It’s harder to track, harder to prove and resolve and hits your credit report just as hard

Faith – but, you could probably use the number, find a reasonably-driver’s-license-like picture on a person’s facebook, and make a fake license. Ahem, not that I’ve, um, ever…

Also, when I read this story, first thing I thought was “oh good, rape debates, these always end well.” Good to know I didn’t get let down.

If a woman wears skimpy clothing she does not deserve to be raped.
If a woman gets drunk she does not deserve to be raped.
If a woman walks alone in a dark alley at night, she does not deserve to be raped.
And no, if a woman goes up to a dates apartment she does not deserve to be raped.

There is no fault of the OP here. At all. None. HE’S in the wrong because he tried to rape her. This is all HIS fault. I can’t believe people still carry this ridiculous “she had it coming” attitude. I’m glad the OP did what she did and he got what was coming to him.

Sorry if someone already mentioned this by why would she need his drivers license number for him to be arrested?? She had his name and address, is that not enough?

Sigh.

OP, I’m glad you’re OK.

Can someone explain the unlawful confinement part to me? If I invite someone to my house, they agree and then I act like an asshole and they leave (via an apparently unlocked door)… I can be charged with ‘unlawful confinement’ in the US? Yikes!

So, what was he convicted of? Anything? Lots of people can be charged based on conjecture and hearsay…not a lot convicted.

I thought this site was supposed to be an amusing collection of stories. It now reminds me of another Very Special Episode of Blossom.

really? – Yeah, OP, your attempted rape story is too much of a downer for me, can you maybe spin it in a funnier way? smh…

@Duncan – I believe the unlawful confinement part was because he would physically try to restrain her when she started to show signs of trying to leave. I’ll admit that I am reading between the lines there and may be misunderstanding – she says she had to act affectionate and willing so he would stop trying to undress her.

@Ash – you know, I’m usually the first to jump on the “no woman deserves to be raped” bandwagon, but I kind of don’t feel like anyone was saying otherwise here (for once). Yes, the “you were stupid for going to his apartment” comments are annoying – who hasn’t made a leap of faith every once in awhile? But even those agreed that it wasn’t her fault – saying she made a stupid choice, while debateable and irritating, does not = blaming her, and most commenters who went that route led with that disclaimer.

I don’t know what to make of this date– the action gets sort of hazy around the “sexual assault & unlawful confinement” scene.

As rejecting sexual overtures goes, saying “the only way you’ll be getting some is if you rape me” seems needlessly dramatic and suggestive, almost like porn dialogue, or maybe the Lifetime Movie Network. (A impassive “knock it OFF, I don’t feel like it” goes a long way in withering a guy’s erection. Ask any man– would THAT get you hot? I rest my case. )

YG– I know you mentioned the thing about my needing “a good lay” because you’ve got a massive crush on me— psychologists refer to it as “projecting”. I’m hugely flattered that you included me in your dramatic farewell address, even though I was entirely absent from this thread until now.

Duncan– I failed to detect any unlawful confinement either. I guess she concluded that he MIGHT have confined her, had she not employed the clever mental jujitsu technique of pretending NOT to require confinement, which is why he didn’t actually confine her. Best of both worlds— no confinement to suffer, but the satisfaction of pressing charges.

Kim– yeah, if you already have the guy’s name & address, his license number seems somewhat redundant.

@really: “I thought this site was supposed to be an amusing collection of stories. It now reminds me of another Very Special Episode of Blossom.”
I think the commenter’s got more serious. when i started reading this site a story like this would have more comments about what the creep was doing in the bathroom and how she should have pooped in his sofa than dissertations about rape… when the PC strikes the funny gets serious and serious kills funny…

@Gewag/Duncan – Thanks Duncan for making my point. I’m hard preseed to find anything in the OP’s story that amounts to illegal confinement.

@Faith: You are incredibly naive, and as a former victim of identity theft I hope you will be more careful about your personal information in the future for your own sake.

Just pointing out some legal stuff out.
Just because law says “If X then Y”, it does not mean t is EASY to prove X.

“Not allowing the person to leave” IS “unlawful confinement” by the law. But how do you prove it behind reasonable doubt? She left successfully, no bruises etc, no violence, What evidence is there to say that he really DID not allow her to leave.

Same goes for sexual assault.

@Hellcat. I have nothing against the OP’s story, it just seems like a sad trend for this once humorous site to now focus on the drama.

“the only way he would be having sex with me was if he raped me and he seemed to be ok with that”

Something’s missing here. As far as I can tell, the ONLY thing the date did wrong was that he “seemed okay with that. What exactly did he do to “seem” okay with raping you? Did he keep grabbing you? If so, then yeah, dude deserves everything you can throw at him. But if he just tried to keep talking you into the idea, sure, he may be a creep, but definitely not doing anything illegal.

@Lisa – well, if you asked a rapist, it’d probably get him hot, which I think is the OP’s point – she was assuming that bringing up rape would scare him/turn him off, like it would for most men, and when it didn’t, that’s when she started to freak out and assume the worst. I don’t know if I would bring that up the way she did, but if I did and it DIDN’T turn a guy off, well, I’d be thinking of ways to bolt too. Again, it sounds like when she tried to struggle, he kept trying to rip off her clothes, which is the unlawful confinement part – if I’m reading it correctly, she decided at that point (after he’d tried to keep her there) to feign interest so he would stop holding her. Kind of like quicksand – the more you struggle, the deeper in you go, so best to just calm down while you figure out what to do.

For what it’s worth, I thought it was weird that YG brought you up, given that your response would most likely be agreeing with his (hers?). Maybe he’s on the rag or something.

@really – ok, fair enough. I’m in school for social work and right now I see social injustice everywhere I turn, and hence am kind of no fun anymore – but you’re right, this site is supposed to be lighthearted and entertaining, not a forum for rape debates.

People have strong feelings about certain topics. All of the comments can’t be as witty as JChief or Tronner usually are and all of the comments don’t have to be treatises on alcohol abuse or rape debates. Let people say what they need to say the way they need to say it. Then bash them repeatedly (in a lighthearted and entertaining way, of course).

I’m really disturbed by the amount of “blame the victim” mentality I see on this site. =/ There’s enough of that in our culture without encouraging it to try and be funny.

What always amazes me is the men who say variations of “well, what did she EXPECT a guy to do” mentality – blaming her for what he does, because, apparently, men are just animals with no ability to control themselves – are the same people who complain that women treat them like they are potentially dangerous – i.e. won’t talk to them on the street, won’t be in secluded places with them, etc. These guys always whine, “but I’m a nice guy!”. But women who are attacked should have known better. Huh.

Am I the only one that always drives myself to dates? I NEVER let a guy know where I live and I’d never go to his place until I was comfortable AND had my own car. WHY WHY WHY do people let strange men pick them up for dates?

What the hell is up with the ‘blame the victim’ mentality that I’ve been seeing so often on here?

I’ve spent pretty much the entire day chuckling and snorting beverages up my nose while perusing the vastly entertaining (and somewhat mortifying) posts on this site, and this whole ‘she had it coming!’ thing is getting to be rather disturbing. And I’ve only known about this site for less than 24 hours.

Yes, there was this and that that she could have done to possibly avoid X and Y, but sh!t happens. You people really need to stop tearing others to shreds and just take the time to sit back and enjoy the stuff on here for what it is- amusement.