The Sweet-Talker

A bit shy, I didn’t enter the dating scene until I was 18 and on my own. I was naive and inexperienced and when I met B in our university housing complex, I was flattered by his attentions. He was Pakistani and studying abroad in the U.S., which would normally excuse most language and cultural misunderstandings. Our first date was relaxed and we just took an evening walk around a park. Afterward, we sat in the residence lounge and talked and he asked to kiss me, to which I willingly agreed. After a nice kiss, he asked me to go to his room to have sex. What?! I explained I was a virgin and wasn’t ready for sex, to which he laughed and said that there was no such thing as an American virgin. I replied that whomever told him that was incorrect and it was insulting to women to be viewed that way. He apologized, chalking it up to a misunderstanding and that he was still learning about U.S. culture. Willing to accept that, I agreed to a second date for the following evening.

Date #2 turned out to be MVWD. As soon as we met in the lounge, B asked me to drive him to see someone about a car he might buy. That wasn’t a problem for me, but on the way there, he started explaining that his parents wired him 4 grand for a car, and he blew $3500 in two months on cigarettes, booze, and who knows what else. He checked out the car, and decided not to get it so we returned to his residence. Then, he said we needed to head to his friends’ place two blocks away.

When we arrived, he told me I had to wait outside. When I asked him why, he said it was because in his culture it was inappropriate for a single woman to be alone with a bunch of men. He said he’d be right back so I sat on the curb. After ten minutes, I was ready to leave when one of B’s friends, whom I already knew, came out to talk with me. He asked why I was outside and I gave B’s cultural explanation. His friend said that was garbage and I was welcome to come inside. At that moment, B hurried outside and said we had to leave. Walking back, I told him what his friend had said and asked why I had to sit outside. B said it was actually because all his friends would try to sleep with me and he didn’t want me around them. That’s some strange culture…

I was pretty hungry at that point and asked about food, to which B said we could eat whatever I had. He knew I worked in a grocery store deli and kept a decently stocked mini-fridge in my room. Ok, this date was going downhill fast, so I thought I’d tough out the rest of the evening. After we ate in the lounge, which is usually deserted in the evenings, we talked some more and he asked to kiss me again. Thinking I’d give him another chance, I agreed. After a few minutes, he said he’d be right back and returned a minute later with a bottle of lotion. Suspicious, I asked what the lotion was for and he said it was lubricant for anal sex. I jumped up and headed for the door, but he blocked my exit.

I angrily him I was not ready for sex of any kind and he said it was ok because, really, there was no such thing as an American virgin and all American girls are sluts. I didn’t need to be embarrassed because he knew my real reason for waiting was because I was on my menses. As I silently stared at him, he went on to explain that he knew lots about sex from having done it many times with one of his cousins and I shouldn’t worry about getting pregnant because all I needed to do was take a birth control pill and I’d be fine. I pushed him out of my way and ran to my room. I managed to avoid him until I saw that same friend one day, who said B had had his student visa revoked for failing all his courses.

Many years later, the thing that still strikes me about that incident was that he said ‘menses.’

Comments (48)
BettyJune 13th, 2012 at 5:16 am

Cripes- even accounting for cultural differences, this guy was way over the top. It takes a set of big brass ones to break out the butt lotion after a lady tells you she’s a virgin. You dodged one hell of a bullet with this one.

LiLoJune 13th, 2012 at 5:33 am

I wish I could say this was unbelievable, but in traveling abroad for business I have met a number of Middle Eastern men who assume all American women are “sluts.” I actually had a man make a pass at me, and when I told him I’m married he said something along the lines of “If you were a good and faithful wife you would be at home baring his children.” Disclaimer yes I know not all Middle Eastern men are like this yadda yadda yadda.

And now that I’m done being serious: I declare this fellow a douchecanoe!

PsycheJune 13th, 2012 at 5:45 am

I’ve been told this isn’t a phenomenon exclusive to Middle Eastern men. There was a book called American Shaolin by Mathew Polly about the author’s experience living and training at the Shaolin Temple. Apparently, the monks were freed from their vows of chastity centuries ago as a form of gratitude by a emperor whose life a few of them saved. The monks came to the author for sex advice because they thought as an American, he knew a few things. They were shocked to find out he was pretty much a noob in the subject as they were!

NattieJune 13th, 2012 at 5:57 am

The sad part is, this story echos almost exactly what my racist mother says about middle eastern men.

NotCinderellJune 13th, 2012 at 5:58 am

When I lived in Shanghai, I got followed back to my apartment by a Uyghur Turk who sold stuff on the street near where I lived. He assumed that because I said hello to him and made small talk, I was interested in sex.

Luckily for me, white women in China are very much protected by the police, and Uyghurs are targets of discrimination, so when I freaked out and told him to leave, he did.

RavenJune 13th, 2012 at 6:06 am

This was pretty intense. OP is lucky that barred-exit didn’t lead to rape.

zomboidJune 13th, 2012 at 6:55 am

haha…menses

zomboidJune 13th, 2012 at 6:56 am

all menses are pigses

HannahLillyJune 13th, 2012 at 6:58 am

Holy crap! This is horrible! Hopefully you are able to laugh about it now…

RavenJune 13th, 2012 at 8:01 am

LOL @ zomboid

TraceyJune 13th, 2012 at 9:44 am

He wouldn’t have had any other chances or consideration from me after leaving me out on a curb to talk to his “men friends” while we were supposed to be on a date. So glad you got away from this nightmare….

WiccaJune 13th, 2012 at 9:56 am

I don’t think this is so much a cultural misunderstanding, as the fact that he was a complete and utter penis-hat. I’ve known a few Pakistani men and only total hicks would behave in that way.

KCJune 13th, 2012 at 9:57 am

I have to say the OP did a very good job dealing with the situation! That guy was either a complete creep or he was using “cultural differences” to get in your pants. I have a similar situation when I met a guy from Uganda in a club. He was soooo forward and it took me aback. Even in just one night, so many cultural differences came up that I became really creeped out by the guy. I’m really gonna take a second look before I date someone from a more obscure country!

reviewJune 13th, 2012 at 10:03 am

You infidels and your menses. Aiyayayayayayayayayayaya!!1!!!!1

TillieJune 13th, 2012 at 10:06 am

It takes a true gentleman to remember to bring the butt lotion. Naht.

SueJune 13th, 2012 at 11:08 am

I “dated” a Lebanese guy one summer. “Dated” in quotation marks, because I said I just wanted to be friends from the very first encounter, and he agreed but then kept saying that we should get married and have lots of babies right away. We never got as far as a kiss or even holding hands because I really meant it when I said I just wanted to be friends.

I put up with his intermittent suggestions of matrimony because he was a gentleman otherwise, just a little awkward in a culture that was all new to him. I was a virgin and admitted it, and I got the impression that his over-the-top romantic interest was from thinking I must be the only female virgin in the West.

I don’t regret spending time with him but ultimately we were worlds apart in culture and religion, and we didn’t keep in touch when I moved at the end of the summer.

SallyWordSlingerJune 13th, 2012 at 12:20 pm

Agree with Wicca. This guy was a dickwad in any culture or language.

RavenJune 13th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

This reminds me of that scene from Eurotrip, where the creepy dude kept “accidentally” groping the kids on the train.

“I brought butt lube … Oh, scuzi!”

I definitely think this guy was using the idea of cultural differences to get his butt rape on. However, perhaps all he knew of the US was Playboy and Girls Gone Wild.

LowMaintenanceJune 13th, 2012 at 3:42 pm

Pepper spray. Pepper spray. Pepper spray. Pepper spray. Pepper spray. Pepper spray. Pepper spray. And then a swift kick to his unlubricated junk.

Drinky the Drunk GirlJune 13th, 2012 at 5:10 pm

You could have thrown a few racial stereotypes back in his face. That’s kinda fun to do when they think it’s ok to do it to us because we are american. Strange when the shoe is on the other foot it’s not so funny.

IndianJune 13th, 2012 at 6:14 pm

I am a female from India and I’m embarrassed to say that a lot of Indian/Pakistani men think this way about western women. This is especially true among Muslim Indians/Pakistanis/Bangladeshis etc. They think that unwanted sexual advances are a form of flattery as well. Ugh.

EllereJune 13th, 2012 at 7:49 pm

Yah, lived in India, street harassment was an everyday occurrence. Might only be the moronic hicks that do it, but man… there are a lot of moronic hicks in India.

yuk yukJune 13th, 2012 at 10:22 pm

“you vant to have the sex, yes?” lol. if op really were on her pd, he’d be on the floor rolling grabbing his nads. he was lucky op was nice!

RattusJune 14th, 2012 at 5:20 am

I really hate to pile onto the cultural stereotype heap, but yeah, I had my issues with South Asian men in the distant past. Most horrifyingly, when I was fourteen I was trying on a blouse or some-such in an Indian store and the owner came into the change room and started kissing me, and then offered me a job. I WAS FOURTEEN!!! Unfortunately I was skipping off of school and so was not in a position to be ratting on him, my parents being the abusive jackasses they were.

SportyGuyJune 14th, 2012 at 6:54 am

So all American women are Sluts?? Being Canadian I didn’t know that, guess I’ll have to make a few road trips south of the border. Just one question – Do they get Sluttier the farther south you go??

blondieJune 14th, 2012 at 7:46 am

KC, what exactly is an obscure country?

RattusJune 14th, 2012 at 8:01 am

@SportyGuy, did you read my post directly above yours? That happened in Toronto. It would seem that the belief is Canadian girls & woman are also free with their favours.

@blondie, I think that Guinea-Bissau might be considered to be obsure.

blondieJune 14th, 2012 at 8:32 am

Rattus- How about Pakistan and Ghana?

RattusJune 14th, 2012 at 8:38 am

@blondie – nope, not remotely obscure.

EmilyJune 14th, 2012 at 8:38 am

This makes me kinda sad because I’ve experienced something very similar living in a city in the UK where there is a high population of Pakistani men. I am incredibly pale with white blonde hair so I attract quite a lot of attention. I would get groped just walking down the street or standing on the bus etc on a regular basis from the age of about 16. Once I got followed home by a man who refused to leave until I gave him my number, and sadly I had forgotten my keys and my parents had gone out so I was just stuck outside scared stiff while he wouldn’t leave me alone. On a different occasion a man followed me up the street telling me he’d only leave me alone if I gave him a hug, naively I agreed and the guy grabbed me, refused to let go and molested/sexually assaulted my teenage body right there on the street until I managed to wrestle free and run away. I wish I knew what the ‘difference’ was in our cultures that makes people act that way, it was very upsetting. I also noticed that a huge majority of the creeps I encountered referred to me as ‘princess’, and it’s permanently put me off anyone who ever uses that pet name with me.

SportyGuyJune 14th, 2012 at 10:03 am

So now according to Rattus Canadian girls are Slutty too? Why hasn’t anyone told me this before? I better start making up for lost time

RattusJune 14th, 2012 at 1:14 pm

No, no, SportyGuy, I said that the perception was that we were loose, not that we actually are. Most Canadian women are morally upright and will not take kindly to your taking liberties. And those of us that were loose at one time are now married, fond of our husbands, and faithful to the point of heaving a beer bottle at the heads of those who think otherwise.

maoJune 14th, 2012 at 1:46 pm

The story makes me sad, and the traumatic stories in the comments make me even more sad :(

JillJune 14th, 2012 at 3:52 pm

@SportyGuy: well the birthrate to teenage mothers goes WAAY up the further south you head. I’m from Texas and my boyfriend is from Chicago and all I ever hear about is how in Illinois there are hardly any high school aged moms but down here there are tons of them and “why don’t southerners know how to use birth control???” and also how there are a lot of single young moms in Florida where he used to live.

So we’re probably not sluttier, just less educated about sex because we’re somewhere near the Bible belt. :)

MeshellJune 14th, 2012 at 4:34 pm

Men, take note. This is why Patriarchy sucks. It inspires otherwise intelligent men to not respect other humans. I can only imagine the decent men who understand how patriarchy is an insidious belief system just shaking their heads in disgust.

KCJune 14th, 2012 at 7:34 pm

@blondie – I guess maybe obscure wasn’t the right word. I meant just a country not similar to the US (where I live). For example, Canada or the UK would probably have similar social etiquette to the US, whereas Uganda (where my guy was from) had a completely different idea of what was acceptable and unacceptable. Not just in terms of sexual advances. For example, at one point, my friend (who also happens to be a lesbian) came over to talk and he became irate all of a sudden because he hates “gay people.” I found out later, there’s a law in Uganda where homosexuality is punishable by death. So that really really freaked me out!

KCJune 14th, 2012 at 7:35 pm

And just to clarify, I have nothing against anybody from Uganda… I just happened to have a bad experience there!

JessieJune 15th, 2012 at 12:40 am

Pakistan is more south asian, to people who have no idea about the differences it’s really hard to tell them apart from Indians or Sri Lankans.

I was so confused by everyone calling this guy middle eastern when I think Pakistan would be better described as a South Asian country.

LiLoJune 15th, 2012 at 5:39 am

@ Jessie

Personally I think Pakistan is where the Middle East transitions to South East & Central Asia. You see a lot of cultural influence from both Iran and India.

But regardless this attitude towards Western women is pretty rampant throughout the Middle East & Southeast Asia. The attitude arises out of a perfect shitstorm of poor education, an institutionalized form of misogyny (usually cloaked in religion), and the portrayal of the sexually liberated women in Western media. The train of thought leaves the station thusly:

“I am a man, my penis entitles me to sex when I wish to have it. You are a women. When women are not controlled by men they are promiscuous*. In my country we have ways of controlling this promiscuity. As a Western women you are . Therefore you are promiscuous. Therefore you will have sex with me because I am a male and I have a penis which entitles me to sex when I wish to have it.”

*BTWs promiscuity includes “allowing” yourself to be raped.

Once again disclaimer: Not all men from the region are like this, I work with a number of very charming, polite gentlemen from India & Pakistan on a regular basis. And some who are just your standard sort of asshole. But aren’t we all sometimes? Aren’t we all?.

SallyWordSlingerJune 15th, 2012 at 6:49 am

Burkina Faso is obscure.

TulipJune 15th, 2012 at 11:14 pm

This comment thread made me sad, angry and scared. If I wasn’t agoraphobic before, I am now.

Barbary LionJune 16th, 2012 at 3:18 pm

Tulip–this comment thread made you more afraid of open spaces?

Takee EdadJune 17th, 2012 at 3:10 am

@ Barbary Lion, I think Tulip means xenophobic.

blondieJune 17th, 2012 at 9:03 pm

This story shot into my mind the other night when I was at a salsa event, and the Egyptian guy I was dancing with kept trying to kiss me and grind against me. This wasn’t at a drunken club somewhere where people were going to meet other singles and get lucky- it was a sober event for dance enthusiasts, and he was the ONLY person acting like this. I was wondering where the hell he got the idea that behavior like this would be acceptable and even welcome, and then I remembered this story. And then I got really sad. (well, first I told him to back off and refused to continue dancing with him, and THEN I got really sad)

wendyJune 18th, 2012 at 10:30 am

I dated a man in my younger days from the Middle East and apparently, according to him, anal sex is common there so that girls can stay “virgins” until their wedding nights so they don’t get stoned to death by their brothers. FYI

NGJune 18th, 2012 at 10:57 am

@Wendy: Apparently, hymen transplantation surgery (typically, just before a woman’s wedding) is quite a profitable business in the Middle East, especially in the oil-rich Gulf Arab countries.

blondieJune 19th, 2012 at 8:38 pm

NG- Where do they transplant the hymen from?

JunamiJuly 6th, 2012 at 2:28 am

@blondie. The hymen is not a ‘wall’ or something you break through. It is just a little ribbed side in the inside of the vagina. The procedure is basically a stitch job, the little ribbed side is sewn together so it will bleed the next time the woman has sex

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