Disagree to Disagree

poor kittykat! when i read the last part i nearly started crying. what a jerk. for that and for the stupid speech he took you to, but mostly for that >:(

Wow, dude really knows what a girl wants to do on the first date.

What a jackass. I bet he didn’t even see anything wrong with his behavior; he probably drove off mumbling to himself about how girls make no sense.

I don’t understand why Matt should think that CH would *offend* you. I’m an atheist but if I was lead to listening to a very religious speaker I would just be laughing all the way through. CH makes serious and straightforward criticisms of religion and if it offends you then you clearly have a problem with your own position. I agree he should have told you in advance, but I think he was just trying to broaden your world-view.

@Some guy – you think that her date was trying to broaden her world view and yet you say that you would be “laughing all the way through” listening to a religious speaker? Wow, who needs their world view broadened?

You’re a better person than I, OP. I’m not sure I could’ve handled hours on end of people cramming their beliefs down my throat!

@Some guy: having a healthy conversation/debate with a friend about religion can be view-broadening. Inviting them to a speech on the topic can be, too.

But tricking someone into spending hours of having their personal beliefs belittled is not okay. She made it clear that she wasn’t comfortable with that beforehand. Her parents launched a personal attack on her whilst she was a captive audience. That is not view-broadening, that is cruel.

@Some guy – except they had already talked about it and agreed to not bring the matter up anymore. Then he chose to ignore all that and had her sit through an evening of belittlement – not just the lecture, but the dinner with his equally rude parents. I’m an atheist as well, but I was raised with enough manners to know that it’s disrespectful to put someone’s beliefs and ideas down, especially when they’ve made it clear that they’re not budging. OP was a high school senior; that’s 17 or 18 years old. That’s old enough to decide for herself what she chooses to believe. It’s condescending to think an adult needs their world view broadened and thankfully they have brilliant old you to do it for them.

So sorry, OP. I wouldn’t have even wanted a friendship with this guy.

And you can bet he told everyone that she broke up with him because he’s an atheist and she couldn’t handle it. Or that he broke up with her because she was a raving Christian fundie Republican “and you know how they get…”

The only thing worst than this ambush-by-atheism would have been a surprise date to go to an Amway meeting.

This exact date happened to me once, years ago, except in reverse. The guy I was seeing at the time was a Christian and I am a firm atheist and he totally tricked me into going to a big “Come to Jesus” meeting by telling me we were seeing a famous musical performance and it was a surprise.

It’s a douche move no matter which side of the issue (or any issue) you’re on.

That said, I kind of don’t have a lot of sympathy for a Christian in this situation, sorry for that OP. It’s just that I spend nearly every single day having Christian doctrine thrown at me. If I leave the house or turn on the TV it’s always there. I realize you don’t do that, personally and for that I thank you. But honestly it’s so pervasive in our culture that people hardly even notice it anymore, until they step back and watch for it. You sat through one evening with Hitchens and some douchey atheists. Non-Christians of all stripes deal with it every day.

But I thought all liberals were open minded!

The surprise ambush he pulled by taking you to see someone speak on a subject you’d already said clearly went against your core beliefs was enough of a douche move, but to leave a suffering animal on the road to die because “it’s just a cat and it’s not worth the hassle” was a total POS move on his part and revealed a lack of compassion and caring that’s inexcusable. So glad you dumped him, OP. He was (and is) a heartless jackass.

I’m with JackyM. The ambush is the problem. He might even had convinced his date to go willingly if he had talked about it a few days/weeks before. Try to change some one’s religious/political views, very bad starter for a relationship.

sounds fake. “look at the horrible godless democrat and how hypocritical he acts!”

This is the first time I’ve ever felt the urge to say “Try not being such a doormat next time” in response to a post here. The date was obviously a dick all around, but his parents may not have known you were a Republican Christian and could have had the grace to stop if you spoke up and mentioned that you were both (still rude of them, of course, but why be a martyr about it?). Also, once safe at home, why not call him out for being the asshole he was instead of nicely couching it as “let’s be friends.” I wouldn’t want to be within 10 miles of this guy ever again if I were you, especially after the cat incident.

@JGirl, I’m with you on the whole situation. Yes, it is indeed a douche move to ambush anyone in such a manner, but this wholy whiny Christian-centric culture atheists are forced to have to deal with on an almost daily basis is just so freakin’ tiresome.

As an off-sides, I had a truly annoying (not just because of the religion) co-worker who cut into my lunch hour every single day because she went to church. I was told by many people that I should be tolerant of her religious beliefs and shouldn’t make an issue of it. I was completely tolerant of her religious beliefs – I couldn’t care less which invisible friend she was worshipping on her off hours. I was not tolerant of the fact that I couldn’t go on my lunch break until she got back, and then I had to be back at 1:00, meaning she was getting one hour and twenty minutes and I was getting forty minutes. But you know, she’s a christian and I have to be tolerant of that crap. Bah!

@Rattus. Fuck that crap! I hope you raised hell.

Agree with JGirl, but the guy was still a total douchebag. Even seeing a DEAD animal on the road would bother me for a day. I don’t think I can live with myself if I leave an injured animal on the road, knowing that I could’ve saved it. I think I would’ve called the guy and asshole right there and told him to let me out the car to help the cat; he could feel free to leave and I wouldn’t want him as a friend either.

As a non-Christian I am going to have to disagree. I don’t frequently get bombarded by Christians trying to save me. I don’t see this on the TV or read it in the newspapers. I live my life as a non-Christian quite peacefully and without disturbances by the Christian community.
That being said, the US is by far the most religious industrialized country, statistically speaking. (Ireland is second, but its far behind). Clearly despite the fact that we have freedom of religion this is laregely a Christian country. We’ve never (and might never) had a non-Christian President or Vice President. Something like 90% of the country identifies as Christians. If anyone disagrees with that, realize that most of the country is nothing like NYC or SanFran. We non-Christians have the ability to leave anytime we feel that the US is too Christian for us. For atheists, you can go to Scandanavia.

I hear atheists complain ALL the time about how they are always being confronted by Christians and having Christian beliefs “shoved down their throat”. As someone who belongs to a minority religion, I find it is much more common that an atheist tries to shove his beliefs down my throat. And this is the common retort “Well Christians do it to me all the time!”. What in the world does that have to do with ME? Or anyone else that doesn’t evangelize? Quite little.

Lead by example, people.

Have to somewhat disagree with Rattus and JGirl (I”m agnostic.) While western society is decidedly Christian-centric, from the holidays we celebrate to the fact the grocery store closes earlier on Sunday, I’d also say that Christianity is the only religion that can be subjected to open distaste and “politically-correct” bashing. Then again, I’m sure this is not the case in many parts of the US.

Oh and Rattus – that’s where you make up a religion that requires you to worship until 1:20
I take it from the past tense that the work situation has changed, but if not (and if you’re paid hourly, and not getting an extra 20 min of compensation) you should contact HR asap – that’d be very illegal to do where I’m from.

I’d have loved the Hitchens lecture, but I can’t bloody stand athiests who seem only able to talk about athiesm. I have interests.
I *could* go to Scandinavia, but this is my country too and I’ll be staying where I am. Deep in the heart of Texas.
There is no war on Christianity; that’s just a ridiculous lie made up by people who think freedom means the freedom to oppress others in the name of *their* religion.
That said, this guy is a douche & I’d have been out over the kitty thing even if we aligned on religion. For me, not believing a hereafter makes it even more important to ease suffering & not be a douche in THIS lifetime. But hey, I’m a good person.
Nattie… Islam. Don’t forget about how insanely this country reacts to a Muslim person doing something extreme like existing.

By all means, stay! but don’t be naive and expect the atheist beliefs to be as accepted as christianity.

i’m not buying this. sorry, but i don’t.

@Blueberry – good point. I’m in Canada and it’s a bit different here…while Islam (and other religions as well) are definitely stereotyped horribly, it’s usually more internalized… Christianity remains the one religion that you can speak ill of at a crowded party and have no one accuse you of being a bigot. I don’t think it’s a war on Christianity, if anything it indicates Christianity’s continued dominance and normativity, but I can understand if it’s a point of contention with devout Christians.

So either this guy was — to gauge by some of the comments here — working out his anger against all Christians on a woman he had been dating for several weeks, which seems like a complete misundertanding of what “dating” means.

Or he thought this would be a neat way to convert her to his way of thinking, which — well, that’s just dumb.

Or … or what? He had forgotten she was a committed Christian? He had forgotten they’d agreed not to talk about it? He had forgotten that dates generally involve activities that both people will enjoy?

I will give the guy’s parents a pass, because it’s a safe bet sonny boy hadn’t bothered to tell them OP was a Christian or a Republican, and having seen her at the Hitchens speech they could easily assume she was at least inclined toward atheism.

The only thing I would quibble with OP about is continuing to go out with this guy after they had established that they had “extremely opposing” approaches to faith. Differences are one thing, but it sounds like she knew they had no common ground at all on this, and that would make me decide it had no future. However, a few weeks of dating isn’t a major commitment. And the fact that they had agreed not to talk about it suggests OP had no intention of trying to convert him, and had every reason to think he would extend her the same courtesy.

The kitten thing — well, I’m no cat fan, but even I would at least hand over my phone. It sounds like at that point he’d already decided to end it and felt free to act like a jerk.

If I were you, OP, I’d have a serious talk with my guardian angel about warding off bozos like this in the future.

I wish we could’ve switched places. I would have loved to see Hitchens, and would likely have truly enjoyed punching the date in the neck for driving away from the wounded animal.

Call me a godless heathen, but I’d probably have deliberately hit the cat if it were clear that it had been fatally injured. At least I could have helped end the pain it was feeling.

I am actually baffled that this guy tricked her into going to the lecture, and having her sit there all night being belittled…and what finally made her decide to break up with him was that he wouldn’t help a cat?
I understand that he’s a horrible person for not caring about the poor widdle kitty, but jeez. Did OP seriously intend to continue dating this douche after the lecture and dinner?

Maxxy,

The guardian angel comment just makes you seem like an asshole and makes me forget everything else valid you had written before it. It also just proves the comment made previously about how mocking Christianity is deemed acceptable and not seen as bigotry. Good job Maxxy.

Sincerely
A Formerly Catholic Atheist

KarenWalker,
Everything YOU just said goes right along with the stereotype of Atheists being stuck up and pretentious and reminds me why, again as a nonChristian, I’d generally much rather chill with Evangelicals or Mormons. It’s really cool how you speak as though someone must be a moron if they have a belief. It’s really open minded of you and non-judgemental.

Why is it suddenly okay to bash Christianity but bashing atheism is seen as wrong? You are allowed to insult someone’s religion as long as it is more widespread than your beliefs are…? Am I getting this right?

I’m a Christian. I don’t care what anyone else is. I don’t think you’re any less of a person or that you’re going to hell or that you need to be saved. I don’t care about your sexuality, race, religious beliefs, or any of that. If you’re a good person, I like you. Anyone who uses “well I have to deal with Christianity being shoved down my throat!” as an excuse is a huge jerk.

Forcing someone to be in an uncomfortable situation is rude. Telling someone their beliefs are stupid is rude, no matter what your religious views are. Don’t use the fact that you’re a minority as an excuse. There’s enough intolerance in the world as there is.

@et, you realize that KarenWalker is opposed to the derision of christianity, don’t you? That s/he is chastisting someone who appears to be condescending to those who believe in such things? In fact, your little missive up there is resoundingly more judgemental than anything Ms./Mr. Walker has posted.

wow that guy was an asshole i would love to run him over see how it feels for him laying in the middle of the road dead or barely alive u should never have gotten back into the car with him instead u should have stayed with the cat and look for help and tell the guy to piss off and leave without u

Speech – People are capable of listening to speakers who disagree with them. I can’t stand the way so many of us navigate our lives without coming across disagreement.

Dinner – Yea, that’s pretty rude. Did you say anything, invite them to dialogue? (Whenever I hear this kind of thing, I like to point out that there’s no real difference.)

Cat – awful. You can’t learn a ton from how a person behaves on most dates, but if you watch how they treat waiters, and especially dying cats, you’ll learn about their character.

Dani – We must be kindred spirits! You nailed it for me.

Pray or don’t pray. Believe or don’t believe. I don’t care, but don’t be a dick about it either way.

Maxxy- I respectfully disagree with your assessment that OP shouldn’t have continued dating Mr. Asswipe after realizing that they had opposing religious views. As long as everyone is respectful of everyone else and, like you said, nobody’s trying to convert anyone, there’s no reason a relationship like that shouldn’t work. Opposites attract, after all.

As for the whole discussion about having Christianity or Atheism being jammed down our throats, I think this definitely depends on individual communities- geographic region, family affiliations, etc. I recently visited a rural elementary school on the last day before Christmas break (not winter break) and the whole school had an assembly with Santa Clause where they sang Christmas songs, including hymns, but on the opposite end of the spectrum, I at times hang with a pretty artsy, rural, educated (ahem, snooty) crowd that at times can be downright douchey about their supposedly superior atheism.

Blame Canada, Blondie. We get nervous around too much religion.

Nattie: Seriously, Christianity is the “only religion allowed to be bashed in this country”??

What country are you from??? *cough*”Ground Zero Mosque” *cough* “Koran burnings” *cough*

I kind of think the last part was thrown in there. I am a biologist and an atheist and not believing in some sort of god does not make me lack compassion (especially for animals). If you wanted to call animal control, why did you need to stop the car? Were you planning on giving the cat medicine while they got there? Also, you saw the cat lift its head? Did it say “Help me OP”?

I find the last part of the story extremely contrived to make the guy seem like a jerk and somehow associate his beliefs with not helping a dying animal.

Oh, for heaven’s sake, Karen — is it OK if I say heaven? — get the stick out of your behind. I’m a Catholic myself. Making a little joke about guardian angels is hardly bigotry. Unless, of course, one has absolutely no sense of humor and is determined to think the worst of everyone else.

I wonder what the comments would have looked like if the story were something like this:

-Guy dates girl. Everything is okay.
-Girl tricks guy to going to a Billy Graham rally , making him think it is actually a surprise he will love, despite the fact that while she is an Evangelical, he is an atheist.
-Girl takes guy to dinner with her parents, and he sits there through the meal while her parents talk about how stupid atheists are, they are going to hell, etc., and some liberal bashing for the cherry on top.
-Despite the fact that girl is seemingly nice, she shows no compassion to a dying kitten in the road. That’s the last straw.

It is not hard for me to imagine what the posters here would say. And the fact that some seem to think the atheist in the original post was just broadening her horizons, etc., I doubt you would say the same about an evangelical. “Why is she brain-washing him?” “POOOOR OP! I hate when Christians do that!” “I’m sick of bigoted republicans!”

Well, I’m sick, too. I’m sick of the idiotic double standard.

@Dr. Cheese – I genuinely don’t think that the OP hates atheists or liberals. No one thinks that atheists are secret cat-hating jerks. But maybe there is one in the world who is?

Monica, I’m guessing Nattie isn’t in the US.

That poor cat! The rest of it didn’t seem that bad except that he had to hang out with the author.

I’m pretty sure that if the OP had reported that Matt had stopped the car, gotten out and gleefully kicked the cat several times, some people here would still be defending him, because of course a liberal atheist could never be in the wrong compared to a Christian Republican.

Nattie: Christianity is the only religion that can be subjected to open distaste and “politically-correct” bashing.”
Monika: Seriously, Christianity is the “only religion allowed to be bashed in this country”??

Nattie: I’m in Canada and it’s a bit different here…
Monika: What country are you from???

BlueberryScone: Nattie… Islam. Don’t forget about how insanely this country reacts to a Muslim person doing something extreme like existing.
Nattie: Good point… …while Islam (and other religions as well) are definitely stereotyped horribly, it’s usually more internalized… Christianity remains the one religion that you can speak ill of at a crowded party and have no one accuse you of being a bigot.
Monika: *cough*”Ground Zero Mosque” *cough* “Koran burnings” *cough*

Here’s what I say to atheists who resort to insulting my intelligence for believing in God (rather than presenting a cogent argument and then taking the time to listen to my response):

“I don’t give a sh¡t about what you think.”

Holy shit I would have killed to see Hitchens before he passed away! The only time I wish I could have swapped places with a person submitting to this site!

I don’t care what religion you do or don’t practice, tricking someone into attending a very pro-whatever event is just wrong.

I was similarly ambushed into attending a Christian youth group meeting as a teenager. I had a good friend who was a Christian, although she never really discussed it. She invited me over on a Friday night for ‘dinner with friends’. I went, only to find it was a youth group gathering and everyone sat in a circle for three hours, singing religious songs and sharing their feelings about Jesus. I am an atheist and I don’t think I’ve ever felt so uncomfortable in my life. This was pre-mobile phones, so I couldn’t even call or text my parents and leave early.

I asked her why she thought it was appropriate to invite someone she knew to be an atheist to a full on religious youth group and she said “I don’t want you to miss out on being saved, you shouldn’t have to go to hell”. We weren’t good friends after that.

Hey OP here

I knew submitting this story would spark a lot of debate in the comments. And I can assure you that this story was not a conspiracy to make Atheists look evil. If it weren’t for privacy issues, I could tell you the date, the location, name of the professor/dad, name of the restaurant we went to, and name of the street this cat was on (I ended up going to college in the town so I drove down that street a few times over the years and thought about the kitty).

I can see how the cat thing could sound fake, but I promise you that I will never ever forget that pitiful look that it gave me. It was heartbreaking. And to the person who asked what I would do if he stopped…I would have blocked off traffic until the sheriff or ACO came to either save the car or euthanize it. I feel that is must better than just letting it sit in the road and hope it didn’t run over again or tormented by a stray dog, not to mention to hopefully put it out of his pain.

And to the people asking why I would date someone with such opposing political beliefs- I had just turned 18 at this time. He was cute. We got along other than that. I didn’t see the point in writing someone off just because we had different opinions. With that being said, no that I am in my 20′s and dating is a little more geared towards finding the right person, I do take these things more into consideration. Not a deal-breaker, but I would rather marry someone who is at least somewhat on the same page as me about religion and politics.

@lisa There’s an amazing button your keyboard called a “period”. Use it sometimes. People will thank you.

OP, props to you. I’m an atheist but I respect everyone’s views as long as they respect mine. I believe you handled this really maturely and with grace.

And that last part broke my heart. I am a huge animal lover and animals in pain causes me intense grief to the point of hyperventilating. I’d have done the same thing you had! Good for you! And yeah I truly believe that seeing how people react around animals is a really good definer of their true inner being. Empathy is a must.

Thats awful! Ya I have a lot of respect for you. I’m not christian but I respect the values. That poor cat.